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Town Hall
Placebo and Nocebo (July/August 2009)
As you saw in Michael Brooks' article "The Power of Placebo" (July/August), just believing that a medicine will work can make it more effective. Even a sugar pill can make you feel better if you believe it will. But does this mean that doctors are justified in lying to their patients? What about the nocebo effect? If causing patients to feel anxiety and doubt can actually make their pain worse, how can we study this effect without causing people harm?
What about you; have you ever knowingly felt a placebo effect?
I have never knowingly felt a placebo effect, but after reading this article about it, I know that the disgusting cold medicine I took was not really medicine, even though it worked because I thought it would. And it did.
(July 5, 2009 - 3:33 pm)
Have you heard about "The Secret" and visuallizing things so they happen? If you have, I wonder how that ties in with this.
(July 6, 2009 - 8:26 am)
Yeah, i've heard of it. I believe that the way these two tie in together is by the way that, in the case of the secret, you think something, and boom, it happens. The same is true for the placebo. You are under the impression (rightfully or not) that the medicine will have some positive effect, (or in the case of the nocebos, a negative effect), and your mind gets ready for, "oh, something to help deal with my ____, good, now it feels better".
In both cases, your mind is thinking of something, and believing it, and in its eventual effects. I don't know if i'm being cohesive here, but if my meaning is even somewhat clear, i've accomplished something :) The more i read this, the more muddled my thoughts become, so, hope i've helped!
(July 18, 2009 - 5:44 pm)
it's actually crazy the amount of things that connect with the secret! i think this sort of shows that it's at least kind of true. have you ever heard that humans only use one tenth of their brains? perhaps that's true and we could actually do some really cool things if we learned. man, i would love have telekenesis!
(April 26, 2010 - 5:53 pm)
Just yesterday I fell and scraped my knee really badly. Today I opened the wound again and it was bleeding alot. My mom put a Band-Aid on, and bingo! it felt better. I know that the Band-Aid had nothing to do with it, so it was definitely placebo... I have had this happen before I knew about the placebo effect, so I expected it to work immediately.
(July 9, 2009 - 4:08 pm)
Bandaids dont work for me. I'm not sure why, maybe its because of reading this article!!! It was way cool though. Even with my one year old sister, if I kiss her banged knee, she grins and is fine!
(November 17, 2009 - 7:18 pm)
i hit my head doing backstroke and when i foung out i place in the event my head felt better
(July 10, 2009 - 4:55 pm)
That one's different! Your head felt better when you found out you placed? Wouldn't think that!
(August 10, 2009 - 11:40 am)
First of all, I would have liked to see the whole valium is a placebo thing in the beginning expanded upon, because that was very shocking news to me. Also, I was under the impression that doctors were really not supposed to prescribe antibiotics unless there was a dire need for them, in order to prevent antibiotic resistant strains of diseases. If anyone would like to expand on these concepts, I would appreciate it. dy
(July 10, 2009 - 9:44 pm)
I was interested to find that out about Valium, too.
I did some research for you and found that yes, prescribing antibiotics unnesecarily is a problem, especially during cold and flu season. People are trying to prevent unnesary perscriptions, but it's hard to control. One source said that during 73% of visits to the doctor antibiotics are prescribed, and 1/4 of them inappropriatley perscribed.
Also, are band-aids, when used on small "boo-boos" that aren't actually bleeding, placebo? And what about when they actually are used on bleeding injuries? They don't have any sort of drug, but they often make your injury less painful.It's possible that injuries hurt less when they're not bleeding, but I'm not sure.
(July 12, 2009 - 4:14 pm)
yeah i would think that bleeding "boo boos" would hurt less when not bleeding. hey, has anybody ever noticed that an injury seems to sting when it bleeds? why is that?!!!!!!!!! please answer....i might go insane because i lack this vital piece of information!!!! :)
(July 21, 2009 - 12:04 pm)
Well you think WOW im bleeding it must hurt because it bleeds, then it hurts, therefore bleeding is like a nocebo effect. Have you ever seen those cartoons where someone is on fire, or there's an arrow sticking out of them, but they don't notice until someone kindly points it out to them? And the stinging- when you scrape your knee it'll sting, and also bleed, so it's not too hard to draw the conclusion "Bleeding makes it sting." That's one theory and the other one is that it stings when its being cleaned, or something. Other than that I don't know, you'll have to look it up.
(July 25, 2009 - 7:48 pm)
I have felt placebo it actully works too
(July 11, 2009 - 1:40 am)
I was thinking, maybe another example of a placebo effect is when your parents say "It won't hurt," to comfort you.
(July 11, 2009 - 10:16 am)
usaully when they say that they mean, it does hurt and if you don't believe that there is no placebo effect
(July 25, 2009 - 7:50 pm)
I have never knowingly felt a plecebo effect, but I found out I was under the control of one when I took some "medicine" (so I felt better, right?) for a headache and thought it was working until I read the list of ingredients and the first one was: Sugar. So I knew I was only taking sugar instead of real medicine. I felt worse after (knowing I wasn't going to be treated, obviously).
(July 12, 2009 - 1:19 pm)
Yes i have had experience with the placebo effect, in fact it was today. I'm kinda sick and i thought that a bath would help, so i took one and i felt a lot better even though it did nothing.
(July 13, 2009 - 12:28 am)
I've felt the placebo effect. Whenever I take a Tylenol or something like that, I think about it helping my headache (or whatever), and I usually feel better right after I take it instead of after a half-hour.
(July 16, 2009 - 8:12 pm)
a lot of the time i take homeopathic remedies, i know they are pretty much placebos, but they taste good, and i still believe in them, and so they usually always work.
(July 17, 2009 - 5:08 pm)
I have never knowingly felt a placebo effect, but i do know that, when i feel sick, and say to everyone, "i'm getting sick", i feel much worse than when i say to myself, " i am not sick", and really believe it. That personally works for me, but only when i wholeheartedly believe it, and act normally, not just lounging on the couch and reading a book all day. :) So, in effect, i think when my mind is made up, it follows the path it chooses. I also think that "think positive" stuff really does have its merits. If nothing else, then at least you aren't caught up in, "oh, i'm so mad", but instead are thinking, "oh well, i just got a mean face from someone at the bus stop, no big deal"
(July 18, 2009 - 5:54 pm)
HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY!!!!!!!!!! I JUST GOT MY WISDOM TEETH PULLED AND LOOKING BACK, ALTHOUGH IT WAS UNPLEASANT TO THE EARS, I AM PLEASED THAT THE DENTIST ACTUALLY TOLD ME WHAT THE RISKS WERE AND THE RISK (PERCENTAGE OUT OF 100)OF EACH THING HAPPENING. NO PLACEBO EFFECT AND I DID FINE.
[No need to SHOUT!! --Ed.]
(July 21, 2009 - 11:58 am)
I completely agree, now that we all know about the placebo effect, doctors should just be honest and give us the medication we need and tell us the real risks and benefits of what we are taking, instead of just giving us a pill of sugar. If they just give us a placebo, we'll think we're just fine while we have a virus is raging inside of us. Also, a placebo might fool us into think we're OK and we might even weaken our immune system while a virus is still inside of our bodies.
[Just to be clear, I don't think a doctor can actually prescribe a sugar pill to a patient. But a doctor might, for example, prescribe an antibiotic to a patient with a cold, even though the antibiotic itself probably won't help the patient. --Ed.]
(August 20, 2009 - 1:56 pm)
But for the placebo effect to work, medicines must have worked at some point. The very first medicine must have been effective, so its users began accosiating pills with relief. If this didn't happen, then the first pill medicine would have been tried, been ineffective, and then discarded as a lost cause. Nobody would be conditioned to associate pills with relief, so the placebo effect wouldn't exist!
(July 22, 2009 - 7:57 pm)
I've felt both effects often; the nocebo, when, for example, you rip a band-aid off. The placebo is a different story but it boils down (no pun intended) to the fact that when I stick my hands in warm water on a cold day, I automatically feel better, as if I'd taken a nice hot bath. I knew that logically that hot water wouldn't help me, but somehow it worked.
*is gullible* And once when I went hiking, I tripped and banged my shin. I wanted to keep exploring and told myself that it didn't hurt about a hundred times, denying that I even had a bruise. I eventually forgot about it. When I got home and saw the bruise, suddenly it started hurting again.
Fablina- Not necessarily. If someone you trust would tell you that the medicine works, you could have the placebo effect without it ever having worked. For instance, when you were little and got sick and couldn't fall asleep, someone (probably a parent) would bring you medicine and tell you that it would help you. Trusting them, you would believe them feel the placebo effect.
(August 17, 2009 - 12:42 am)
I think placebos can seriously harm a sick human. What if you are sick and a doctor gives you a sugar pill, and you think that you are fine, then, your brain thinks that you're fine and you naturally lowers your count of white blood cells, thus lowering your immune system? Then, your immune system will be low while a virus is raging inside of you!
PLACEBOS ARE DANGEROUS!!!
(August 20, 2009 - 2:03 pm)
I don't think placebos are nessarily 'dangerous', I mean, I don't think that people using the idea once in a while could seriously harm someone if used in the right circumstances. Almost anything could be dangerous if used incorrectly or in a bad situation. So. Point being, I think placebos are okay and helpful if used, like everything, in moderation.
(August 24, 2009 - 8:29 am)
I have felt the Placebo effect. It happens when I have a headache from not wearing my glasses, and I put them on and my headache immediatly feels better. I know that could not really be true, but hey, my head doesn't hurt as much, so who am I to complain?
(August 24, 2009 - 5:46 pm)
I have felt the placebo effect when I am driving in the car and I get car sick, and immediately when I get out it feels better. Then when I get back in, I feel sick again. I guess that is both the Placebo and Nocebo effects right there.
[I get the same thing--motion sickness when I'm about to get into a car or a plane. Funny how knowing it's all in your head doesn't make it go away! But I've found that chewing gum can help, whether the vehicle's actually in motion or not. --Ed.]
(August 25, 2009 - 1:47 pm)
I get motion sickness real easily when I am not looking out the window. This is just a placebo effect, but if I want to read in the car or bus, etc., I hold my book/magazine up to the window and I don't even get dizzy! It totally helps!
(October 10, 2009 - 8:16 pm)
Actually, looking out a window does help. Motion sickness is caused by your brain getting different data from each movement receptor: your eyes, inner ear and muscles. In a car your inner ear says that your moving forward, your muscles say that your shifting side to side (if you're restless like I am) and your eyes say that you're still. If you can see the horrizon then your eyes also say that your moving and that lessens the confusion in your brain.
(April 26, 2010 - 6:04 pm)
I'm not sure, but maybe all those "Feel good" foods (i.e. chicken soup) are placebo? I know if I'm sick or am depressed, it makes me feel better, and I don't know how it could do that. I guess if you have a cold, and don't have a fever (so you're not hot) the warmth would feel good.
hmm...
(August 28, 2009 - 2:04 pm)
I don't really think it matters if it's placebo or not. If you think/know it's placebo, then chances are it'll stop working. I think we should leave things be. Even if we all are suddenly aware of placebos doesn't mean we just MUST hunt down each and every one. And regarding the SHOUTING that went on earlier: Placebos, however fake, are, to me, not dangerous at all. When we take regular medicine, our white blood cells don't suddenly diminish. So it should be the same with placebos. In fact placebos are better in some ways because there is no chance of people having an allergic reaction to them-unless you are allergic to sugar, which I'm sure is really rare and the docter wouldn't give it to you in that case.
(August 28, 2009 - 4:10 pm)
It depends. If you have a cold, Ginger and garlic (and horseradish, but I've never heard of that in chicken soup) can actually help a stuffy nose.
(August 31, 2009 - 10:29 pm)
I'm not sure. There's this stuff for headaches called "Oxcillo" (well, that's how I pronounce it) and it makes me feel a lot better, and it also tastes good...
On the other hand, whenever I get the icky gross liquid strawberry/grape/cherry medicine, it only makes me feel a tiny bit better-I relapse after a few hours to how I was before I took the stuff, so would that be considered a placebo effect as well?
(September 2, 2009 - 11:42 am)
It would probably be considered "nocebo". Nocebo is like placebo except you think you will feel worse, not better.
(September 7, 2009 - 2:05 pm)
I've been reading Muse since my best friend gave me a one year subscription for Christmas, and I've never found one article that pleased me more than this one!!!!!! <3 This was the best!!
I have experienced two placebo effects that were both after I got my Aug. one. 1) I had to get a shot for H1N1, and the doctor said that everyone who had gotten it so far said that it didn't hurt, so all it felt like on my arm was like a liquid squirting up my arm. It sort of tickled! 2) I had scraped my heel on the edge of a pool two days ago, and before I went in the pool today, my friend said that she always felt better when she went into the pool and had a cut on her ankle, so I thought it wouldn't hurt.
P.S. Editors, does water somehow help close cuts?
(September 13, 2009 - 3:40 pm)
Hello? I have been patiently awaiting an answer! *thinks*to*herself* and*gasps* OH NOOOOOOOO! MAYBE KOKOPELLI ATTACKED THE EDITORS WITH A LEMON MERAINGUE PIE AND IS NOW HOLDING THEM HOSTAGE AND TORTURING THEEEEEM!!!!!!!! MY DEAR EDITORS, I WILL SAVE YOU! *falls*off*a*cliff*. :) ;)
(October 4, 2009 - 9:36 am)
One time i fell down the stairs and my arm was KILLING ME!!!! (not literally) And then my friend put my arm in this sling (made out of her sweat jacket, and it felt better. It was kinda dumb cause we all know that sweat jackets dont have any medicine in them.
PS. Did anyone else notice that "Obecalp" was "Placebo" spelled backwards?
(December 19, 2009 - 10:46 am)
I personally think the placebo effect article was very intresting.
P.S. My 2 year old brother wears Band-Aids just for looks or something.
(January 17, 2010 - 8:27 pm)
Have you ever heard the old saying, "If you kiss a sea cucumber, you'll have 7 years of good luck?" No? Oh, well. It's a famous saying on the island near me. I was talking to one of my friends today, and he said, "Remember those sea cucumbers we kissed on Catalina? I think it works, because I've gotten all A's on my tests and a bunch of awards in school recently!!"
Now I want your opinion. Do YOU believe that the legend is true? OR is it just a placebo? Does it somehow alter your way of thinking, or give you confidence with every step because you think everything you do will be lucky? Has anything like that ever happened to you? PLEASE respond!!
(May 12, 2010 - 10:35 pm)